Faint Bisexuality?

[pk_Gar]

Hello, I'm pk_gar. I identify as a woman, never been in an official relationship and I'm currently going to 20 soon so I'm not sure of I'm too old to ask:

Since this year and last year I've hovered around the idea of wondering if I'm bi or not (specifically focusing on one facet of bisexuality towards liking men and women), . Sometimes I might be aroused by reading GL or staring at a muscular woman character or perhaps being very excited to talk to people who identited as women online. I've always liked guys since I remembered, I'm fairly confident in my heterosexualness, like zero doubt I could bet my life on it but recently I made reflections. What really started this was that my online friend said I gave off "bi vibes", hell they even gave me a bisexual bingo—I spiraled. Thinking and wondering about that moment so much so I blink and a month has passed since I messaged my friend about it.

I've never been drawn to other girls IRL, I have had a friend I fell out with and was slightly desperate to impress and get back back in middleschool. I admired her because she was smart. I knew what bisexuality was at the time but I felt indifferent and far removed from that label as I balantly didn't show signs of liking other genders. I got obsessed with a person I knew online once who was a woman, I felt nervous talking to her because she was also smart but felt mysterious to me in a way I couldn't connect to her. Together were in an online server and she teased me often, at first I was shocked (she was ver unflitered with her language), but then I eventually grew to like her behaviors. Even now I questioned whether I felt aroused discussing with her even if she was a woman.

Much recently, a fictional character who looked like a man, I was confused I was attracted to their appearance. Though being told that they were a woman character it still doesn't change how attractive their appearance is to me, I was so confused. I felt guilt, because each time I felt a cold disconnect: I couldn't be attracted to them because I really love men. I found myself never relating to orientations under the lgbt umbrella I always see myself as cisgender and heterosexual. I know I could list previous "near miss" or "Oh wait... maybe" moments, none of them were ever strong. I suspect I'm a 2 on the Kinsley scale.

Im writing here because I feel guilty that if I found a cis woman attractive because she looks "like a man" (masculine) then it must be shallow and fake. Why do I have to have one gender look masculine in order to notice them... I feel like my attraction is so tiny that it isn’t worthy of being bisexual, even if it is there's nothing I can do with it... I'm scared of trying to date outside my strongly preferred gender only to not like them and realize "my own" bisexuality (towards women) for me is dead and useless. I wondered if experimenting would help but why do I need to prove or solidify things through physics means??? If I have to go through the trouble of trying to climb up a hill to confidently say I might be interested in women then isn't it not real? For now I figured heteroflexible is plausible or fictionally bisexual but I really wish I could consider real life possibilities I could confidently step into...

Side note: I'm not the most progressive person, so I wonder if something is holding me back. The more I thought about a future with a woman it felt like a small loosening of a hardened idea. Problem is my attraction isn't strong enough to want to be head over heels like I am with men at the drop of a dime. I really don't want to hurt any woman by wishing I had a man or using women as a secondary option (I still have to unlearn heteronormativity). I'm not authentic like the other people in the lgbt community, I constantly questioned this intensely this year and it feels like I'm forcing myself to be bi when it feels like I'm not but then I get confused by a character.... I just want peace, I want to put a nail in this coffin of wondering and wishing.

[Sofi]

Hi there, pk_gar, welcome to the boards. I'm glad you found us and decided to write this post.

There's a lot to unpack here, but I don't want to overwhelm you. I do want to send you a couple of resources that will be helpful for you to read, please give them a look:
From Erasure to Ownership: A Bisexuality Journey
Bi the Dozen: A Bisexuality Quiz

I also want to address you saying you're not "authentic", I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but being queer doesn't require any romantic or sexual experience in order to be valid. Attraction is enough to, if you want to, be part of the community and use the labels. It's ultimately your choice, though, as not everyone cares for labels and that's also okay. But you're not inauthentic just because you've experienced attraction for masculine presenting women only, or because you're unsure if you'd actually like dating or being intimate with women. It's okay to take some time to figure it out with no rush or pressure.

You also shouldn't feel guilty for finding masculine presenting women attractive - it's normal to have preferences and certain gender expressions or features that we like. At the same time, it's also normal for straight people to occasionally find people of the same gender attractive. There aren't many rules to all this, and you could spend forever trying to figure out what it means, or you could accept that you've felt attraction to women before, it doesn't have to mean anything if you don't want it to, and your sexuality can change over time.

Now that we've covered some basics and dispelled some myths about bisexuality, I want to check in and ask how you're feeling after reading that?

[pk_Gar]

Thanks so much for the reply, I resonated with the quiz article in particular about thinking sexuality is one and one. I've unfortunately felt discouraged by friends and stories online that have said they knew since they were young and sexuality being something that couldn't change. Others who felt sure and strongly positive in their sexuality sounded great, it was like that for me for my heterosexuality until I reflected. That's where authenticity comes in of which I was talking about. I'm a very stickler person when it comes to "being real", I may use other people's experiences or the most common experiences as my own bar exam to compare so I know I'm doing it the "right way". Boiling down to silly perfectionism.

Few examples were, "well sometimes you have a physical reaction to something no matter your sexuality so it may nit mean anything" or "If you will something into belief you can trick your mind to actually make it happen". Not having sure signs of an already heavily doubted and non-confident part of myself made scared, felt paranoid, and even worse there were no set paths or rules—it's all up to you to define what your subjective experience is. (As a stickler I feel comforted by things I can verify by outside sources if I personally am unsure)

Where I also felt doubts on was, if I was attracted to looks then if the looks of that person change would I still love them? I worried if I ever found myself attracted to someone masculine IRL it'll only because my "heterosexual" brain thought they were a man, I really don't want to sound hurtful to that person if I may have initially dated the woman for that reason or fall out of love for her if she took a more traditional feminine appearance—which hasn't attracted me. What if I only saw them as a man and that's all? I never want to invalidate someone's gender. If I don't get aroused by all other women or women content then I wonder if it was real, I listened to an F4F audio for example and had little reaction compared to an M4F. I don't find women I see often in public attractive, that solidified my doubts. Finally, fictional characters aren't real, if I was never on the internet could've I have gone my whole life just never thinking I could be bi because the occasional attraction was extremely faint? Methods of realizing IRL that you're bi sounded way more authentic than crushing on a stylized character that doesn't exist in real life. I'd feel more confident if I had confirmation... but I've found thinking and letting myself imagine the possibility I felt a little less worried.

It's confusing because if I expose myself to content related to GL, or WLW plots my mind might make dreams or fantasies. I often consume heterosexual content and but recently I started to peer into WLW media. Not too long ago I've read a doujinshi material and the focus of the material was on masturbation, I heavily related to this experience (it featured cisgender women like myself) because I had similar genitalia and features. So I felt an odd sense of closeness even though I couldn't relate to having a girlfriend or not being straight, I honestly wished I had. It's so much easier to enjoy arousing material if a female body like mine was there because I can self insert. On the polar opposite end I couldn't relate to BL at all, the stories are nice but I felt this unshakable indifference. However being attracted to the idea of sameness whether that be exploration with another cis woman or relating to womanhood or being able to bring my partner in women spaces (ex: women bathrooms) makes me wonder if it's a festish! I actually worry if I fetishize in the way a straight woman does about women to women things which is why I felt inauthentic. They truly liked women for being women no matter what, I was a woman who liked maaculine gender expression on them, that sounded way less deep. And heterosexual romance was my number one goto I felt the less conflicted reading.

Authenticity lastly meant to me was, I've grown up in the cishet dome. My life hasn't drifted outside of that until recently but as I am a heavily relational person I have more experience outside than in.

Essentially, I was considering bisexuality as a label because then I would be real to myself not in denial by saying I've only been straight. However, I'm worried that because my bisexual is very odd to me in how it shows up l can't feel confident. ESPECIALLY if the attraction is small and occasional. It's like seeing a mirage to me, I walk closer and it disappears or it's farther away. I want it to mean something, but the more I try to hold onto it the less it holds onto me so to speak.

Everything I've said makes me worry that if I choose to explore that my heart isn't strong enough to get a girlfriend or even a wife (should future plans change) if I take a chance to be open because 1. If out lives are outside of each others in terms of identity community I wouldn't want my old biases to cause conflict and 2. My worries, perfectionism, biases about women to women relationships and other self doubts might snuff a budding flame out, inadvertently hurting my partner ... 3. No one wants to be a straight-girl's experiment or sampler, that's hurtful and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. It actually felt saver to try to find someone like me than someone who exclusively likes women. 4. I'm scared I'll just see her as a friend and not a partner because of some strange internalized reasons or low attraction reason.


It feels easier to just be straight if that's all I've perceived to know. Bisexuality is very tricky, I'm certainly new on this journey and even though it's out of my control: I really don't want to give up on the possibility or just find out that Im actually straight after all this. apologize for this rant, I swamped my online friend about this particular topic too, I could think for hours and hours but it hasn't helped.

[Latha]

Hi pk_Gar!

I’m glad the quiz article resonated with you, and that it was able to address some of the ideas that have made you feel discouraged! Reading your post, it seems like feeling certain and being authentic are very important to you. I want to explore these ideas a little.

I fully understand how it can be scary and destabilising to be uncertain - to not know how to think about or contextualise your experiences. Beyond that, it can be uncomfortable to look around and feel different from other people. Because we are very social creatures, noticing difference can lend itself to a sense that there might be something wrong with you. But I assure you, there is nothing wrong with the way you experience attraction. If it’s different from some of the people you know, that doesn’t mean it is bad, or less real. Human sexuality is so diverse that if you go looking, you’ll find plenty of people like you.

I think you’re right to say that this urge to compare yourself to other people to be certain and real is a perfectionist tendency. It’s too much pressure to put on yourself. To me, it seems like allowing yourself space to have complicated feelings even if they don’t match other people exactly is a good way to be authentic. Learning to tolerate some uncertainty can give us more freedom to be who we are, and to grow and change over time. What do you think of this?

"If you will something into belief you can trick your mind to actually make it happen".

You know, this seems like an uncharitable way to frame the fact that when we pay attention, we often increase our ability to see. If willing yourself to be attracted to women makes you actually attracted to women, what is the problem? You haven’t lied or cheated - if it’s possible for you to develop feelings of attraction to women, I would say that is authentic enough. And there are limits to this method! If everyone could just think themselves into any sexuality that they wanted, we would live in a very different world, wouldn’t we?

I think you know that being bisexual doesn’t mean that you have to like men and women in the same amount, or even in the same way. You also know the way we experience attraction can change over time, and someone can start identifying as bisexual at any age, not just when they are young. Bisexuality is about experiencing attraction to more than one gender. There are no strict rules about how you should do it. You don’t have to like GL media or F4F audios. As Sofi discussed, you don’t even have to be attracted to all women. Plenty of people who like women have preferences around presentation - there are people who only feel attracted to masculine women.

If ‘bisexuality’ feels overwhelming and uncertain, and ‘heterosexual’ doesn’t fully capture your experiences, why not consider the term ‘questioning’? Would you look over our article on the topic, and tell us what you think? Q is for Questioning

[pk_Gar]

Wow, the questioning article is just what I needed to try to quiet the paranoia. It feels better to consider questioning for now. Though, it still tugs at me when I feel that my dominant attractions overshadow the smaller ones (it's still hard for me to figure out what attraction means to me or if I'm confusing it with something else). It helps to know that no identity is a monolith and it still seems valid even if I'm interested in one or two women in my lifetime but not every one of them. I'm not sure how to navigate potential dating as a questioning person, relationships seem like they are reserved for people who have it figured out. I've heard that many might date to marry and that sounds intimidating if I'm unsure of myself. Biggest concern once again is unintentionally hurting others so I'm afraid to take leaps of faith. Seeking reassurance but not sure: I haven't found answers about what heteroflexible women do if they decide to date people who aren't men, especially monogamously. The bi-cycle also causes me worry.

What had me curious was this segment:
"may need to unpack some of our own biases and fears (and/or recognize someone else’s are about them being the problem, not us) first."

I've had doubts related to this, my parents aren't necessarily the greatest to talk to as my father might bring up statistics that support heterosexuality or my mother worrying about me going to hell when she caught me looking up lesbianism. I'm point in my life where I'm slowly trying to have independent thinking outside my parents. I personally admit I have internalized many things, I've started to examine media and television I consumed and realized it might be minutely contributing to this as well (old sitcoms are infested with it).

I do not believe my attraction to men are compulsory but it may have become "armor" or "cage" that might stifle the allowance of change for me in terms of my belief. Taking another quote: "if we only feel allowed to be attracted to a given gender, or like it’s somehow better or worse to be attracted to this group or that one, we may not be able to really get at the truth of things just yet,"

It feels like my more confident attractions discouraged me or disappointed me, making it seem like it's mutually exclusive to like men and occasionally women. Thinking Im only allowed to be heterosexual despite faint evidence of a change. I don't have to outwardly prove my bisexuality but it would help to have or gather testable evidence (perfectionism and insecurity talking), whether that be exploration or giving myself more time; at least to prove to myself.

Is it weird to wish that one day I could surprise myself and not end up with a man as I previously thought when I was younger? To wish to make my non-heterosexual attractions as strong my main preference? I may not be ready to face reactions outside of myself but this hasn't stopped me from beliving in possibilities or wanting to cling to a "once bisexual, always bisexual" identity.

[KierC]

Hey pk_Gar!

I am so glad to hear you found the Questioning article helpful in settling some of the uncomfortable feelings surrounding this. If using the word Questioning to describe your sexual identity feels good right now and you want to use it, you should be able to do that! It might also help to know that the words you use to describe your identity are only necessary to use if you want to use them and feel good using them. Sometimes it can certainly feel like having this all locked down and having specific words to use to describe yourself is somehow a “prerequisite” to being in a relationship or experiencing sexual or romantic life more generally, but it really isn’t a prerequisite or a requirement at all. Even if someone does want to date with the intention of finding a long-term partner (which isn’t everyone), they can do that regardless of whether they have set words they use to describe their identity. People can evolve through their entire lives, and if we waited until we’re “set” or fully self-knowing, we just wouldn’t have time to experience connection! Know what I mean?

From what you’ve described, it sounds like you’ve realized that you may have internalized some of the messages from your environment that might make you feel more uncomfortable with ambiguity or change in identity. I can definitely appreciate how growing up in an environment that isn’t accepting of LGBTQ+ folks could amplify concerns about how to describe your identity, and could make it tempting to “look for clues” on your identity or search for testable evidence. I want to say, I do think the sort of “search” for clues and evidence you’re describing can distract from the actual experience of sexuality and connection. I wonder, then, what it might be like if you shifted focus away from “what does this mean for my identity?” And more toward “how does this feel for me in the moment.” How does that land with you?

[pk_Gar]

Focusing solely on how I feel in the moment feels nice. I will say certain reactions specific media with women make me do a double take or maybe I dismiss it as "anyone gets aroused by that" or maybe I'm confused. I have discovered that there are different attractions to have too, style, physicality, romantically... it becomes more and more to think about but at the end of day it still counts as attraction right? Even if it's a fictional character?

I've been milling over bi-curious, heteroflexible, and questioning. Would I need to tell someone I'm dating outside my main preference? Who should I talk to to find people like me? Idk if anyone specializes in cases like mine since I'm fairly new and very doubtful, I don't want to scare away partners. It seems so rare look for someone in my situation where they don't feel confident outside the usual comfort zone, if I like men 99% would someone feel worried I'd leave them based on 1% of me liking them? (Ex: There are times where I might be curious about having sex with a partner with their natal make genitalia and favor that the highest) I'm not sure how understanding anyone is and I don't want internalized biphobia making me fear I'll leave my partner at the drop of a hat (which makes me wonder what relationship is right for me???). Could a fwb or other non-traditional relationship allow me to explore or even enjoy my faint attractions to women? Serious relationships seem daunting as I'm insecure and noncommittal currently, I rarely leap on "unstable" ground. Are people fully attracted to their partners 100% of the time, anything below 50% is an unstable bomb waiting to happen for me (imagination running wild with what could go wrong or trying to save myself from my future conflict by making predictions). In general, anxiety might be unfortunately discouraging me when it involves other people's feelings too...

I still feel a wall of indifference or detachment when I think about my potential bisexuality, especially because I couldn't force myself to find a woman attractive, large feelings of indifference most times is worrying...

As I've stated over and over, I'm sure you can infer that I'm cautious and particular. Talking about this has helped me accept that I might not be 100% straight, I think I'm going in the right directionbut the journey feels bleak even after starting to accept myself currently. I'm still young but it's hard not to fear "zero changes" or "too much changes".


But overall thanks for helping me out, I could go on and on about my what ifs and fears and concerns but this thread would be forever. I don't have a shortage of worries at all so I was wondering how would I find someone I can talk to about this often, a good resource that can handle a worrying chatterbox like me? Again, heteroflexibility seems to not be widely talked about and it would feel better to have empathizers. (I've resonated with this label too because women attraction feels like a drop in the ocean but it also doesn't deny feelings) I've talked to ai but a real better is much better, I also don't want to flood my friend's phone again, they got tuckered out and I don't blame them. This really flips what I've always known since forever on my head and it's been very easily to draw up concerns especially as someone who's been marinating in the cishet culture dome and unfortunately harboring internalized biases.

[KierC]

Yeah! I’ll say, taking the pressure off of sexual identity as a “forever thing” can really open up space for you to experience genuine attraction without the worry of “well, what does this mean for my identity?” Particularly when it becomes a source of worry or stress, it can also be helpful to take a break from trying to pinpoint it and instead sit with the ambiguity and the possibility of it all. Know what I mean?

You’re also totally spot-on with what you said about different types of attraction. Attraction can be experienced as sexual, romantic, platonic, aesthetic, physical, social, and intellectual. So, *lots* of different ways that folks can experience attraction to others, and while it’s not all sexual, they can coexist with sexual attraction and inform the way we experience sexual attraction toward others. You can experience different forms of attraction to fictional characters as well, which falls more under the realm of fantasy.

When it comes to dating while discovering more about your sexual identity, it really is up to you if you want to share the details of your identity with anyone. If you feel comfortable and safe doing so and you want to share, you can! But, nobody should expect or demand information about your sexual identity, even if you’re getting to know them in a sexual or romantic way. Too, if someone is worried that you’d leave because you also experience attraction to people of different genders, I’d say they have a bit of a backwards understanding of relationships. It could be a bit of internalized biphobia peeking its head out (the assumption that bisexual people might leave for someone else has that biphobia involved with it), but taking note of that and naming it can be really helpful in disentangling some of these internalized fears with how you experience attraction.

I also hear you that you’re looking for a space to talk more about this. Just so you know, you are always welcome here to talk for as long as you want. We often talk to users here for an extended period of time if it suits their needs, and we welcome all the feelings and experiences. It’s okay to be uncertain or doubtful, we’re here to talk about it if you’d like to. I also think, if you’d like in-person, or more in-depth and ongoing support surrounding your identity, an inclusive and LGBTQ+ affirming therapist is another great option. I also think community groups, both formal and informal, could be really helpful as you continue to discover your identity. Do any of those options sound like something you’d like to explore? We’d be happy to help locate resources near you if you’d like support with that.

[pk_Gar]

I'd be happy to take resources! Is it possible to opt for online options other than here as well? Be it community or one-on-one with a trusted confidant? Perhaps someone slightly long term should I have any new developments far in-between. 

Often times I worry if I'm using up resources for others though. I still fear if I'm wrong about my bisexuality/questioning feelings, as there are many types of attractions and if I confused any of them. Trying to verify bodily reactions or how I feel as starting points. 

I want to demystify some classic situations and things I've heard: 
— Often I read that some women get drunk and do thing with other women apart “from their usual". Would that mean ridding inhibitions change someone somehow?
— Women sexuality is fluid, so it's only second nature that there us same-sex overlap
— Women get objectified in media all the time (bodies, sex related) maybe "you" just unconsciously mimic behaviors of a male audience to fit in 
— Acts with the same sex don't necessarily mean attraction.
— Women-to-women intimacy seems to very widely spread but not in the sense of relationship but as entertainment for others (be it “straight women who just want to play around or toy with people” or in some objectifying way; I deeply worry if I fall into one of those categories, you recall my mention of having sparse fantasies or attraction to the idea of sameness; as a very relational person, being able to connect over a huge amount of similarity—more than average—has been very attractive to me as of late, but I worry it's due to underlying issues of being afraid of differences). 

I know it doesn't require experience or dating, but I worry that I'm only attracted to ideas/fantasies and if I pursue in real life it's going to be disappointing—(Side example for me is, the idea of penetration portrayed in heterosexual media does arouse me, but I was disappointed when using sex toys, it hurt or felt really weird sticking things in there. Plus penises look kinda freaky to me sometimes, I guess it's just inexperience talking. That's what I'm scared of: high fantasy vs the rude awakening of reality.)—or if I'm only doing it out of fetish /friendship or causal short-term only. 

Sometimes I have concerns on whether I'm going to be using someone for my own gain:
- Well if I have sex with women who can't get me pregnant it's great because I don't want kids, I actually have choice and don't worry about freak accidents
- She'd understand having a period, or if not, she'd understand navigating the realm as a woman right? We would be so connected right? (I feel alone when it comes to male-dominated spaces, am I just using her as a remedy to my loneliness?)
This could easily fall apart if I just use condoms or find a guy who relates to me or if that woman has a completely different life from me, therefore once again certain fantasies are like sinking sand. Then I question am I attracted to benefits or the appearance instead of the person?


 Why do I feel like I'm only reserving marriage, loving deeply, or intimacy for men only because "it feels right or better"? I presume how very low attraction feels, it's almost not even there but it's not zero—yet sometimes I wish I could feel more or hold another woman to see if I love it or an openess to try sex (yet when I went to a legally owned brothel site (this is the united states) I got terrified and extremely nervous just from being on the site alone; this indicated to me "Am I actually repulsed by women or am I scared of them? Or scared to try something outside of myself?"). I really want to dismantle and differentiate what's my obstacles, what's true, and what to do going forward.... I will admit my own mind may be warping my perception for example, I may personally deny compliments because I "don't see it" in myself or feel worthy but if I take the blinders off I realize that they were right about the positive trait. I figured my idea of my own sexuality is maybe the same way and I want to free myself from dampers. 
To sum that, I don't want insecurities or underlying issues to form an illusion of who I really am. Maybe living life and checking in with myself is what I need too

I think I want resources on learning about how to learn myself more through my potentially shifting sexuality (I still get tripped up on, "was that groin twitch attraction? Is my skin heating up because it's cold? Why did I get body goosebumps or tingles?") If possible. Despite being an adult, I live at home with my mother and she took away my sex toys because it's "a sin". Idk if masturbation and sexuality is linked but I'm able to do anything related to that right now, just to put that out there I do hide parts of myself outwardly. I still want to continue to have an open mind and the articles sent so far were very reassuring (I often have endless subjective questions though and I need an outlet, my parents are heterosexual themselves and I feel like they wouldn't understand what it's like to potentially come to a compromise in your once solidified identity) 

Personally, from what I gathered, despite everything I said I still "qualify for" new labels... even if I found fictional drawings attractive as well in my mental reflections (though still I don't think that counts because it's stylized). I see I don't have to fear finding someone either, but I know I think I need to remind myself every time I want to relapse back to paranoia or unintentional self erasure. I often are scared of new things and heavily analyze it to make sure it's safe to accept.

Still one thing that I've never let go is the attraction to folks who "look like men" (which sounds very vague because it's not a monolithic thing) I assume masculine is a better term? Big muscles, taller, deep voice, facial hair, or simply broad features. I think I have a type... but what I'm saying is, 
- how can I be careful to not hurt anyone with that phrase? Or water someone down by comparing them to men? There has to be a better way to express it, it's basically what I've always heard people joke about related to men liking feminine men because "they look like women" except gender swapped for my case.

They say "Is it gay to...." and I say "Am I bi if...", sounds one to one to me.

[Latha]

Hi pk_Gar!

Often I read that some women get drunk and do thing with other women apart “from their usual". Would that mean ridding inhibitions change someone somehow?

Drinking might not change their actual sexuality, but it might make them less afraid or embarrassed to do things with women than usual.

Women sexuality is fluid, so it's only second nature that there us same-sex overlap

I don’t think it’s true that women’s sexuality is more fluid than men’s. For a variety of reasons, it’s often more acceptable for women to openly appreciate other women, and a women’s sexual attraction to or exploration with another woman can be seen as less serious or threatening. This doesn’t necessarily translate to actual acceptance and support for sapphic relationships, and it doesn’t mean that all women are sexually fluid. Too, if someone is sexually fluid, that doesn’t make their attraction less real or meaningful.

Acts with the same sex don't necessarily mean attraction.

That’s true. But if someone is interested in exploring sex and intimate relationships with women, a very reasonable explanation for them to consider is that they are attracted to women.

Women get objectified in media all the time (bodies, sex related) maybe "you" just unconsciously mimic behaviors of a male audience to fit in 

Women-to-women intimacy seems to very widely spread but not in the sense of relationship but as entertainment for…

Oddly enough, I’ve heard many sapphic women worry that they are objectifying the people they are attracted to, acting ‘too much like men’, or being ‘predatory’.
The thing to remember here is that there is a difference between attraction and objectification - the latter doesn’t leave any room for the other person’s desires.

The question ‘Am I mimicking the behaviours of a male audience? is impossible to answer. How can you know for sure when it’s unconscious? I think it might be better to focus on your conscious actions. You can keep space for your questioning feelings and explore them with other people without treating them poorly. You just have to be honest, and treat them as though their wants and needs matter just as much as yours. The problem with men who objectify women and the straight women in your example is not the attraction that they might feel, but the fact that they don’t act respectfully.

Connecting over similarities doesn’t doesn’t mean your attraction is fake, or that you are using another person. Not all women have the same anatomy or experiences, but I’ve definitely heard sapphic women talk about the advantages of feeling understood in certain ways and not having to worry about pregnancy.

I know it doesn't require experience or dating, but I worry that I'm only attracted to ideas/fantasies and if I pursue in real life it's going to be disappointing?..

Sometimes exploring fantasies in real life is disappointing. It could also be better than you imagined. The only way to know is to try. When a fantasy is disappointing, sometimes that has less to with the activity itself, and more to do with the context.As an example, just because someone is attracted to women, that doesn’t mean they will enjoy being with any woman in any situation.

While it’s important to have realistic expectations, I think it’s possible that you’re right - with experience, you might enjoy activities like insertive sex more. I’m not surprised you didn’t enjoy using a sex toy when it hurt - that shouldn’t be happening. If you would like, we can talk about ways to address the pain you were feeling.

"Am I actually repulsed by women or am I scared of them? Or scared to try something outside of myself?")

These are good questions! Do you think your reaction here might have more to do with the messages you’ve received about sex growing up than any attraction you may or may not have to women? If you’ve heard that lesbians go to hell and that sexual pleasure in sinful, I can see how that might make you feel nervous or scared, even when you know that these things are not true.

Still one thing that I've never let go is the attraction to folks who "look like men"…

When you’re describing your own experience of attraction, without talking about specific people, I think you can say you like women who ‘look like men’ without much worry. If you want to be sensitive when describing other people, you could try to listen for the language they use to describe themself, and match that. There are women who wouldn’t object to being described as ‘looking like men’ - that might be what they are going for. Beyond that, you could use words like ‘masc’, ‘masculine’, or ‘butch’.

If you feel up to it, consider looking up the word ‘butch’ on any social media that you use. I think you’ll find a lot examples of sapphic women who are attracted to masculinity in their partners.

I'd be happy to take resources!…

For an online community resource, you might like TrevorSpace
For learning about your shifting sexuality: How To Get Comfortable
Since you’re interested in local resources, would you share your location through this contact form? We’ll email you with the information, so your location stays private.

Even if you were to end up deciding that you are straight, it would still be okay for you to use these resources. You are not using them up - they are for you! After all, the Q in LGBTQ does stand for questioning. I imagine those who run these services would prefer that people who are questioning come to an accepting environment, rather than worrying and struggling on their own.

[pk_Gar]

Thanks for the responses! I'll start from bottom to top in reply, might be unorganized but I'll try to section it.

In regards to...

One of the resources - I'll consider the Trevor space but I'm not sure if I'm super ready, I often feel guilty because of internalizing or prejudice I have inside. I realize it comes from my insecurities and possibly absorption from my environment. For a very long time I noticed I had a closed-minded view, and I don't want to scare anyone off as "just another enemy, you wouldn't understand because you only see the outside". This whole topic on understanding myself, others' in terms of sexuality and emerging from my not-as-progressive environment through self reflection is it's own can of worms, I was wondering how to use this site's chat feature for longer venting.

Choosing to remain straight - It makes me wonder if I made mistake and I immediately think that my questioning is just me being a confused straight girl, it doesn't feel bad to just revert to "safer ground" because my straightness is testible but I also couldn't let this go because it's lived rent free in my mind for a while because I picked apart and analyzed previous experiences. While my findings were extremely uncertain I can't help but think, do I want it to be true? Am I scared of just being wrong? Why am I disappointed by being wrong, shouldn't I be happy that I could just be the sexuality I always claimed to be? I also think, maybe I'll just get over wonderingif I'm not straight because it could be a phase for me... I only talked on here, to my father, and online friends a little about this so I don't think I do this as attention seeking behavior but I also wonder if I don't think being straight is "cool", that's been a very recent irrational insecurity, I hate that—I KNOW everyone is valid but I guess my feelings stem from not liking myself sometimes.... the cognitive dissonance is upsetting. Even now I still have doubts with questioning, a lot of thoughts have been "Maybe you just want to believe/imagine something". My mind often dismisses my concerns as delusions or manifestations of my insecurities... I was someone who wanted to mean something more, I'm wondering if I'm using this to feel special even if I would never be able to admit that maybe I could be bi—I do a lot of brainstorming and relapse into worries a lot.

Wording about masc women + Side questioning - Thanks for suggesting more vocabulary to me, I'll look into it!
- Side questioning: Sometimes it could be a turn off knowing the person is a woman but at the same time not a turn off either... it's a weird flickering flame if I can describe it... I want to deduce because maybe my mind thinks I should supposed to like men more because that's very consistent and other dismissing attraction. I actually wonder if it's possible to kill your own attraction.

Scared? Replused? - Now I want to believe that my mother's comment about lesbianism didn't affect me but I've heard of subconscious influence so maybe... I know I got worried about not being able to please a woman—imagining if I went to the legally owned brothel—or worried I couldn't shower her in gifts like male patrons could or worried I wouldn't enjoy myself or waste her time. (I actually got very curious about real life brothels because of this lesbian manga I didn't feel bad about reading, maybe it's safe to say I was inspired) I know who I am though, an unsure woman with a regular amount of cash who isn't experienced—but the tiniest inkling sees this as a possibility to experiment with no strings attached because you wouldn't need to actively date those who worked there, but somehow it feels wrong. I wasn't attracted to their appearance but I certainly don't hate it, maybe indifferent? Another motivation I was really curious if someone could make my body feel really amazing or be a guide because I had a less great time alone... again I worry I just will be disappointed again or if I'm using someone; the lack of pregnancy risk sounded good since guys my age are likely not sterilized but why does it sounds like I'm just using that as a secondary option not as worthy here? That's the thing I get upset about, wouldn't I just be using a woman like a man would? It's so discouraging to be this anxious, I don't want to drain someone because of my fears. I know I've definitely been repetitive on this thread, it's easy for someone to probably feel tired out by me and my cans of worms. I've notoriously needed to hear reassurances and given into irrational worry in bursts, so they way I talk is very... resistant even if I get answers I always question them and ask over and over. I appreciate every response so far, so thank you!
- Side thing: Whats interesting to me is that I felt limerance and repulsion for a man. He was kind, it was nice talking to him online, he had a crush on me I thought it would be good. We had discussed sexual topics, though I felt bad that I wasn't visually attracted to him. I couldn't push myself, his voice was cute and there were things I liked too. Then suddenly any pet peeves I had became really annoying, I got repulsed, I started not liking him or getting even more disinterested. He hasn't changed significantly for that to happen, it was me, I didn't want to talk to him anymore for no reason...? It was sudden "Yuck" That made question if I found people attractive via personality based on that one experience alone. I often don't get out so I wonder if Ive grown to find fictional characters more visually attractive than real people?

Short comment on fantasy, slight explanation on sex toys and rant - Since I was in my younger teens, I discovered masturbation with water but felt guilty or my eyes felt heavy afterwards. I went to a church where it was openly said that masturbation was a sin so I assumed my actions were bad even so I kept up with it. At 18-19 I bought my first sex toys, I wasn't sure how people felt so great about using insertables, no prep I simply just stuck it in, it didn't feel great and even deeper it kinda hurt just a little bit. Insertion felt like a chore! Fingers were awkward too... I dismissed it and focused on clitoral orgasms instead, it's the only thing that felt good. Lately I'm less ashamed by masturbation, in fact I was upset that my toys were taken even though the insertables were barely used. I got the stern talking while hospitalized, I can't run and go hide my toys under a bed or high up because I'm not as able bodied so I had kept it in an opaque easy to reach pouch.
Maybe I had a hard time because I couldn't relax, I kept closing back up immediately or it was too tight for proper thrusting motion to feel good. I know I'll definitely run into some issues with a partner if they love penetrating, I would like to love it too though but it's probably going to take a while to learn and idk if anyone is that patient, I know I wasn't—I opted for my easiest option. Important thing I should add, everything is compromised now since becoming disabled with several autoimmunities: my hands are slightly deformed, idk if diseases effect sex drive (I could live without masturbation or sex so I'm not upset, it's easier to push away. I had a guy friend online who was tormented by his lust and he too had religious reservations and guilt about sexual matters. I got sad because from what I heard he clearly couldn't handle it as "good" as I could. It honestly made more sense to me for a guy to be able to masturbate than me as a woman, it didn't seem to affect my health I don't think? Though his words made a worry about ending up with anyone who had a way higher libido than I did, it felt like I wasn't enough for some imaginary partner already). Fantasies felt better than real life considering my situations.... My fantasies fluctuate a little like if I'm focused on men, I start to desire that more and I become focused on that. Or sometimes I shift to maybe wanting to consume other than heterosexual content but it's quantity is significantly smaller.

Woman-to-Woman depictions + more on masturbation and fantasy influence - I don't watch much explicit content, I actually only started heavily consuming it after my sex toys were confiscated weeks ago. So far watching glimpses of porn I see it as odd or I kneejerk look away or look down upon it with prudish eyes or feel extremely indifferent. Visual IRL porn isn't my style I guess... it was weird looking at people's face or body move... so for most times I masturbated I just think of nothing and just start rubbing like hitting flint together to make fire—on rising occasions I get aroused or tingles or twitches when listening or reading content (Heterosexual content is my primary go to) so then it encourages me to want to masturbate even though it doesn't feel nearly as amazing as just mental pleasure giving me less motivation to want to explore my body. The disconnect or unable to replicate is a turn off, masturbation feels good but makes regret doing it because I can't feel just as good as if I wasn't touching myself. Another example of disconnection: idk if i should mention but it's very odd that I get penis envy or fomo if exposed to (nsfw) BL content or even guilty because I'm not a guy—I stay away because I'm not the target audience but I also wonder if there's any prejudice , (it feels disrespectful even though it's just me alone in my head and I don't interact with people impolitely.) However with wlw content, i feel less... left out? But I know I'm still closed off despite feeling less worried because I'm a woman and I "match" the content (fixated on sameness again) I'm watching, it feels more safe. Yet sometimes I wonder if I find it interesting in a taboo way or if I generally have actual reactions. So far I'm still navigating what content to watch, bisexual, wlw, and heterosexual content feels the least guilty to try to enjoy.

Objectifying? + Explicit Content - I know for sure I stared a woman's cleavage more than once for videos I watched online. Or mesmerized about butts or bodily physics (some erotic stage dances by women were interesting...) I know my reaction isn’t as explosive or hungry as others within a male audience but I still wonder where that comes from. I don't think romantically but physically in that headspace, I personally don't know the women but it's weird if I'm watching a nonsexual video and bam my eyes go there first. Or if I'm watch/reading "male-gaze" hentai/anime and I find a specific woman on woman scene slightly arousing.

Drinking and loss of inhibitions - I thought about this and wondered if it would give me the courage when I come of the legal age to drink but I know that it's not a good outlet... idk how to feel confidently without trying to rely on other things to think it's okay to feel okay on it. I realllllly don't want to use someone as an experiment or only reduce them to that, I honestly felt a tiny bit jealous of those women because if they kissed it wasn't hard feelings afterwards. I unfortunately had a fantasy of wanting to try things with a woman who was curious, unsure, and predominantly liked men too—I assume it wouldn't end in consequence if I felt indifference or constantly saw any relationship I could potentially get in with someone who wasn't a man as a failure waiting to happen but I know it's unrealistic, my chronic medications interfere with alcohol so I can't try to recreate that...

[Jacob]

Looks like you're getting into it with Latha, but thought I should jump in and remind you that you are kinda already in a queer space by being here!

While we're open to everyone, our staff and most of our volunteers are queer and our users are usually looking for at the very least a more open-minded perspective on sex, gender and sexuality when they come here.

[pk_Gar]

How do I open topics that can be privately discussed? Does this mean this thread is concluded?

[Heather]

Hi there, pk_Gar. The message boards are a place where everything is visible to anyone who wants to read them,. Privacy here is found by way of picking a username no one in your life would guess and simply not sharing any identifying details about yourself.

If you need or want something more private than that, then you're welcome to schedule a time with us to use live chat, which is one-on-one between users and staff (though fair warning, we probably won't be able to do that with you until next week).

In terms of this thread, it's done whenever you want it to be done -- or not -- up to you!

[pk_Gar]

Hello, popping in real quick after a little research.... questions.

I've been keeping "questioning" open but mostly thought about a specific term I mentioned earlier: Heteroflexible

Is that erasing bisexuality? Is it a biphobic term?

I've been worried about using it because people wonder if it's fake or a new term. Usually from people who dislike new microlabels... and honestly it does feel like it isn't real compared to the letters that were there the longest in the lgbt+. People think it's just confusing to come up with "new stuff", yet saying "bi" doesn't fully feel right either.

I also heard that people use that term when they don't want to associate with the lgbtq community and idk how to express that its not true for my case. I generally chose this term because of faint attractions.

It kinda makes me not want to engage in terms of sexuality because I'm much closer to straightness than anything else at the moment. It's really hard not to feel like an intruder or some ally trying to join a party that's not for them.

[Jacob]

Basically whatever someone else *might* think, you can use whatever terms you want and you can clarify your intentions if anyone asks. But it's also perfectly acceptable to say "I don't really want to engage in describing my sexuality in those terms." similar to what you've said above.

It can feel like a relief to take the pressure off yourself to describe it "accurately" whatever that means for such an intangible thing as a sexuality!