I feel disgusted about myself

[Heather]

I'm so sorry you had to wait a day to hear from us, MilkywayVoyager. We had some technical issues yesterday afternoon that were locking some of our team out of the boards.

I'm even more, sorry, though, to hear about your parents reaction to you asking for help with your mental health. It's such a pity that even in this day and age some people still just don't understand mental health or mental illness and the need for qualified help, support and treatment. I wish that you were able to get help and support from your parents, but I understand when that isn't possible, so let's just keep seeing what we can do for you here for now.

Per what you're asking, we actually can't fill our bladders on purpose, exactly, save by drinking loads of water. That's just not how that anatomy works. And I don't think this was about you confusing that feeling with arousal, I think you were aroused (you say you had strong feelings about that person and felt excited by them), it just also happened that it got connected with that feeling of fullness that can happen when we are both aroused and have bladder (including because the organs around the bladder pool up with more blood when we're aroused). I also want to remind you that this ins;'t a fetish. A fetish is about objects and objects people require to feel sexual arousal or satisfaction. This isn't that, so let's just drop that term with this, okay? Holding on to it is not helping you out, and it's also so inaccurate that it just doesn't make sense to keep talking about this that way.

I wish that facts like these were going to help you, but I just don't suspect they will, because like I've said, things like intrusive thoughts are not rational, so we can't bring rationality to them and expect results. Too, know that intrusive thoughts can occur for people with OCD, depression, or both, so the fact that you also have a history with depression only underscores the need for you to hopefully soon get some help. These are such hard things to manage on your own, especially if you're living in a home where you're treated poorly for even suggesting you're struggling with them. <3

I know this isn't available to you just yet through a therapist, but just so you know what effective help with this tends to involve, I want to share some links with you. You and I can also brainstorm a little about ways you might be able to use similar techniques in a DIY/on your own way until you can get help from a therapist, if you like.

• https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and ... e-thoughts
• https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/article ... e-thoughts
• I think this last one might provide the clearest roadmap for some things we can probably come up with for you to do without a therapist until you can access one: https://www.nami.org/mental-health-syst ... -thoughts/

[MilkywayVoyager]

I get it. No need to apologize. And yes, if you think this could help me deal with intrusive thoughts in some way, I think it would be good. And yes, it's true that I had strong feelings at that moment, but they weren't arousal, they were more like... When you're happy talking to your crush, those butterflies in your stomach, but not in a sexual sense...

[Heather]

I’d say that butterflies like that often tend to be a mix of sexual and romantic feelings: people forget sometimes that what’s romantic and what’s sexual often has overlap, and things being sexual doesn’t always look like, say, wanting to have intercourse with someone.

Per helping you, were you able to read any of those links?

[MilkywayVoyager]

I understand, and I recall not feeling aroused. I did read the links and I can see that it can be helpful to manage anxiety. The thoughts don't affect me as much nowadays, but still creep in the back of my mind, you know? But I can manage them better.

What I really want to know is: if I've shown signs of OCD since I was a child (being obsessed with numbers, avoiding numbers, washing my hands frequently for fear of germs, thinking I have a parasite in my head after watching a video about it), do you think I would have felt butterflies in my stomach at that moment and holding back to go to the bathroom, because I wanted to talk to the boy I liked for longer, could it have triggered a period of compulsive habit where every time I sought some kind of comfort, my body ended up doing it without wanting to? Holding back even though I didn't like the feeling of urination?

[Heather]

I'm a little confused by you saying the thoughts don't effect you much when you're heere expressly because of struggling with intrusive thoughts, so it seems to me like they are impacting you quite a lot?

If you're asking me if someone with OCD can still do things like have crushes or other feelings that don't have anything to do with OCD, then yes. Just because someone has OCD doesn't mean the OCD comes into play with absolutely everything, nor that it informs everything. But per the rest of what you're asking, that's really a question for a mental healthcare provider who is both much more educated in OCD than I, and also trained to help with it, and who is also treating you, so knows a lot more than I could about *your* specific OCD.

That said, even that question sounds a bit like still being in an OCD loop to me?

Per the links you read, were there any strategies for managing it or kinds of therapies for it in those articles that felt like good fits to you, or that you were particularly curious about?

[MilkywayVoyager]

Am I? Did It come off that way? Well... I just pointed that out too see if it overlapped with my sexual responses. The thoughts were horrible in the past, but nowadays they're not.

[Heather]

You've been here posting about this for a whole now, and have been stuck in an anxiety loop pretty much the whole time, so yeah, it seems clear you ARE struggling with this.

[MilkywayVoyager]

Yeah, you're right. I just want to understand if I'm right about my take or not. I'm sorry if it sounds repetitive.

[Heather]

Like I told you, that's just not something I can answer for you beyond the ways I already have. It's not about it sounding repetitive, it's about you asking for things I can't answer or already have and can't answer any differently than I already have.

[MilkywayVoyager]

Oh... Okay. Thank you for being patient this far and answering me the way you can, even if it sounds repetitive or annoying.

[MilkywayVoyager]

I've acted on these urges in private recently —things like wetting my underwear in the bathroom—but I didn't feel any sexual gratification during or after. That makes me wonder if this really was arousing for me, or if it could be a compulsive behavior related to my OCD. I know you can't diagnose, but I'm hoping for some perspective.

[HannahP]

Hi MilkwayVoyager!

You're right — I can't speak to whether this is related to OCD or not. When it comes to helping people figure out if their actions are compulsive, I usually remind people that it makes sense to want to do something that you find enjoyable, that's how our brains and bodies work. If acting on this urge feels good (and that doesn't have to be in a sexual sense), it makes sense that you want to do it. There is nothing unusual about that!

I can tell this is distressing you a lot, though, and that's not good. How about we shift the conversation towards talking about how you feel about it, rather than trying to figure out the cause?

[MilkywayVoyager]

Well, I didn't felt any arousal while I was acting on it. And everytime I try to fantasize about it - without judging myself and being at peace if I like it - to figure my sexual identity I feel uncomfortable. I don't feel any good feling on my body when I think about it, more like that OCD thing where you brace yourself whenever the topic appears. Like, when you're afraid you might be queer, so your OCD makes you body have a reaction everytime you read or think about it, but it's not a good feeling. It's like... When you see a bug, or something distressing. It's like I' bracing myself before the reaction happens. When I finally relax and allow myself to feel it, I feel nothing. Not even when watching porn related to it.

[Andy]

Hi there MilkywayVoyager,
Given how worrying and intrusive have thoughts about this been for you, it’s understandable that now your brain reacts in the sense of “there might be a danger and it might hurt, I have to steel myself for that”. (It also sounds like you have had a similar experience with questioning your sexual identity, would you like to talk more about that?)

I understand your effort to learn more about your sexual identity and be at peace with it, but it sounds like nowadays you don’t experience anything positive engaging with thoughts or actions regarding this. And I don’t think that understanding everything about our sexualities, fantasies or desires we have ever had is needed, or even possible, especially given that these change all the time. So, if engaging with it now doesn’t bring you any pleasure or fun, there’s no need to do that.

Lastly, I want to circle back to what Heather talked about with you, which is that we aren’t able to help you with this the way you need but we are more than happy to assist you in accessing a more suitable help. When looking through the links, was there any self-help strategy that looked like it might work for you? If not, could you try picking one and trying it out next time you experience these intrusive thoughts (this one has some great ones https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/article ... e-thoughts)?

[MilkywayVoyager]

I see. Then, I can take it as: "maybe your intrusive thoughts made you have that habit in the past, but in the present I don't like it, and that's okay. If you don't like, you're likely not attracted to it". Like this?
Again, thank you for providing links that can give me helpful information, I'll look through them.

[Ro S]

Hi there MilkwayVoyager,

I think what you've summarized here from Andy is good, especially the reminder "but in the present, I don't like it, and that's okay." It's an okay reaction to feel absolutely nothing about a past fantasy or sexual thought we may have once really engaged with. Remembering that we can change our preferences is important.

As you venture into reading some of the links we shared, this piece by Sofia P may also be a great resource for you when it comes to feeling more at ease knowing that intrusive thoughts are coming and going (though sometimes they feel so ever-present we forget.) Embracing Vulnerability and Discomfort with Sexually Intrusive Thoughts. Let know if you've got any questions about any of the resources we shared with you!

[MilkywayVoyager]

Hello, is there any way to talk to your guys privately?

[Latha]

Welcome back, MilkywayVoyager! Do you feel comfortable saying a little about why you're looking for a private conversation? We are currently working on the schedule for our live chat service, so I'm afraid can't offer a specific time for that right now.

[MilkywayVoyager]

Regarding this subject, there is something I want to talk about but feel embarassed about. If there is no problem, since maybe you guys could feel tired of talking about the same thing over and over. I don't know if I can do live chats.

[Anya]

Hi MilkywayVoyager,

If you want to go ahead and use our text line, that is the other private communications serivce we can offer at this time. Once we are able to open chat back up on a consistant schedule youll be able to message there, but in the meantime, our text line is open for communication. Does this sound like something youd like to try?

[MilkywayVoyager]

This has subject been dragging for a few months, but I was wondering if it would be okay for me to still vent about this here, if there's no problem. I just really wanted to voice it out, I guess. It has been troubling me more intensely this past few weeks. I ask this because since I'm not from USA, I can't use the text line probably.

[Latha]

Welcome back, MilkywayVoyager! We might be limited in our ability to give you different responses than we have already, but if you would like to vent, you can.

Have there been any changes in your life that coincide with feeling more troubled these past few weeks? If you look over your discussions here and your own experiences, can you think of anything that has helped you feel better in the past?