I'm worried, am I easy for engaging in sexual activity before marriage?

[avaanti]

Hi, for starters, I live in a conservative community where sex or any intimate activity before marriage is deemed as taboo (most people look down upon others who did it).

I have a boyfriend of 3 years, we're aware of how things are around here, I am his first long-term girlfriend, and none of us are the type of person to do intimate things casually, and we're committed to each other.

Not long ago, we had our first kiss, we both liked it. Then it becomes our routine whenever we see each other (we meet once a week, sometimes once in two weeks), and 3 months after, I asked if he want to engage in intercourse with me, and we both talked about it and came to a conclusion that we both want it, but only with protection.

So we did it. We are each other's first. What I'm worried about is, I keep seeing people say that once we give ourselves to men (the context is sex), men will no longer feel 'curious' and that means he'll see me differently in a way that I'm "cheap" or "easy."

I talked to him about this, and he said, he didn't think of me that way. We did it together, it doesn't mean that I'm easy. It doesn't determine my value. He reassured that to me several times.

But I keep seeing people say things like, people who did it before marriage is cheap and have no self-respect, or don't appreciate their value. I'm worried, did I do the wrong thing? Am I really easy?

[Heather]

Hi there, avaanti. Welcome to the boards.

I sometimes like to be the person to pop into threads like this because I am a person with the kind of sexual history that often makes me the recipient of barbs like this. I not only have engaged in sex before marriage, I have with many, many partners of varied genders and in all kinds of different relationships, including outside committed romantic relationships, over four decades, and I have also always been very clear that I absolutely refuse to get married or even passively hold up the institution of marriage (which I personally very strongly feel is a vestige of patriarchy that holds up things like misogyny and sexism) in any way. So, there's not even a "before" marriage in my case: it's always been, since I was a child, even, "without" marriage, and very intentionally.

The whole idea that people -- let's be clear, both in history and now, it's never been about people, only really about women -- lose value by having sex before or without marriage isn't something anyone should be holding up because it is something based in misogyny, sexism, and the idea that women are someone else's property. The idea that men only feel curious about sex or women as people if those women have only had sex with them after marriage is super insulting to men, too. That suggests men don’t really see the women they purportedly love as whole people, not objects or property, and that men don’t actually love women at all. After all, if we were not even curious about a person as a person because of their sexual choices, we sure couldn’t love them, because to love someone, we have to at least see them as a whole person.

I don't think the idea that making it difficult for people to be our sexual partner by making people have to take part in institutions of power is a good one: if the opposite of that is making it easy, I think "easy" sounds a lot better and more humane to me. I'm not personally offended by that term, and I'd suggest you consider that you don't need to be, either. I think all of the ways we all want to connect deeply as people should ideally have an ease to it, you know? I also know for a fact that my value as a person is not determined by my enjoyment of consensual sex and mutual pleasure and connection. In anything, I think the ways I have chosen to connect with people and connect in places of pleasure and intimacy only are echoes of my value. I certainly don't think of myself or any of my sexual partners throughout my life as "cheap." (What would the inverse be, anyway, that I am "expensive?" I'm a person, not a commodity for sale. Again, all of this stems from the notion of women -- or people with a vagina -- as property and that's just gross.) And I have great and abiding self-respect. Again, all of these notions are based in really crummy stuff that is meant to make some people feel bad about themselves to hold up power for other people, not in anything good. Even those people you talk about looking down on other people for having sex before marriage? Most of those people usually did that themselves and are just dishonest about it, very much including in conservative communities.

I hope that you can think about all of this in ways that are better, and more forward-thinking than anyone who would suggest there is something wrong with you choosing to connect with someone in pleasure and love. I wouldn't suggest signing on with any of the bias and bigotry and sexism that all of these anti-sex messages are based in, and I hope that maybe hearing from someone like me can help you think about all of this differently.

Do you want to talk about what you might do or say *if* people in your life apply these awful things and ways of thinking to your choices? Sometimes it helps to just have in mind what you might say in response or what you might even just say to yourself to remind yourself that all of this is absolute garbage. <3

[avaanti]

I always try to argue, especially with my parents, that what people choose to do with their lives and bodies are their rights, and that they're not exactly doing any harm, consequences are theirs to bear. I also always try to stress the point that engaging in a sexual activity does not say anything about someone's value, it should not affect the way that we see other people. I also have argued that losing virginity should not be that big of a deal to *US* more than the person itself, if it's not an issue to them then it shouldn't be ours.

But, you know, sometimes the things that they said about this topic just got to my head and it got me thinking that I'm dirty, filthy, and unworthy. They don't know, of course, about the things that I do. They don't say those things to me, but I can't just say "you can't say that, because I did exactly that" — but I always try to argue, and express my thoughts about it, it's my way of fighting for myself and defending myself, I guess?

I do agree with everything that you said, it helped me see other perspective.... Helped me to see the light, I suppose. My partner helped a little with my self-esteem, they reassured me again and again. But, I dunno, sometimes what people say get to me, and I struggle to fight it. Being in a conservative, and misogynistic family and environment, they have so much things to say about people who engage in sexual activities before marriage (because they believe that people, women (honestly), should stay virgin until marriage, because that's where their value is. Which I disagree, it's ridiculous). I think, us both (and many others) are familiar with the things people would say about it.

Thank you, for your reply, I plan to take a screenshot of it and keep it for me to read it another time. It is my own choice to do the things I did, I wanted it, I should own it. I don't regret it a bit. Thank you, for sharing your experience with me, and sharing your thoughts with me.

[Latha]

Hi Avaanti!

I’m glad Heather’s response resonated so well with you!

I understand arguing with parents about a general position as a way of defending yourself, so I don’t blame you for engaging with them. But in my experience, these discussions can be stressful and taxing. If their words are getting to your head, you might consider adopting an approach on non-engagement at least some of the time, just to protect your mental health. It’s not the most common with conservative parents, but if they will respect boundaries, you could also ask them to agree to disagree and avoid making such judgements when you are around.

[char]

Hi Avaanti! From one Indonesian to another, I'm glad to see you here. I hope you are doing well, considering the current sociopolitical climate in our country.... ( ; w ; )

I don't have a lot to add to what Heather and Latha have said, as I also agree with them. Instead, I would like to share that your concerns are totally not unheard of. As someone perceived as a woman, I've heard a lot of expectations (online and in-person) on what I should do with my body: don't "lose" my "virginity" before marriage, don't insert anything to my vagina lest I "lose" my "virginity", and so on.

It can be hard to further remind yourself that none of these "advice" are true when you are constantly surrounded by them. Thus, I've found it helpful to be super selective in who and what I surround myself with, especially online. I block and mute any account spouting the slightest form of sex-negative, discriminatory rhetoric. Instead, I follow people (and communities) who advocate for comprehensive sexual education, sex positivity, and liberation for all marginalized people--Scarleteen included. I'm sure you've done this yourself, but I think it's useful to remember that yes, we have the power to curate our online experience. It's not "creating an echo chamber", but knowing the right people to pay attention to.

You got this; I believe in you!

[avaanti]

Hi Avaanti!

I’m glad Heather’s response resonated so well with you!

I understand arguing with parents about a general position as a way of defending yourself, so I don’t blame you for engaging with them. But in my experience, these discussions can be stressful and taxing. If their words are getting to your head, you might consider adopting an approach on non-engagement at least some of the time, just to protect your mental health. It’s not the most common with conservative parents, but if they will respect boundaries, you could also ask them to agree to disagree and avoid making such judgements when you are around.

I know I have expressed a few times how it made me feel uncomfortable when they talk about a certain thing in a certain way. They are easy to talk to, but sometimes, are just.... insufferable. Thank you, for hearing me out and talking to me I appreciate it, thank you so much

[avaanti]

Hi Avaanti! From one Indonesian to another, I'm glad to see you here. I hope you are doing well, considering the current sociopolitical climate in our country.... ( ; w ; )

I don't have a lot to add to what Heather and Latha have said, as I also agree with them. Instead, I would like to share that your concerns are totally not unheard of. As someone perceived as a woman, I've heard a lot of expectations (online and in-person) on what I should do with my body: don't "lose" my "virginity" before marriage, don't insert anything to my vagina lest I "lose" my "virginity", and so on.

It can be hard to further remind yourself that none of these "advice" are true when you are constantly surrounded by them. Thus, I've found it helpful to be super selective in who and what I surround myself with, especially online. I block and mute any account spouting the slightest form of sex-negative, discriminatory rhetoric. Instead, I follow people (and communities) who advocate for comprehensive sexual education, sex positivity, and liberation for all marginalized people--Scarleteen included. I'm sure you've done this yourself, but I think it's useful to remember that yes, we have the power to curate our online experience. It's not "creating an echo chamber", but knowing the right people to pay attention to.

You got this; I believe in you!

OH MY GOD HELLOOOOO!! I was not expecting to meet a fellow Indonesian! It's so-so-so great to see you here. Also, I am doing well, the past week been rough for all of us. I hope you're handling it all okay too, I hope you're safe.

You're so very much correct, I always try to distance myself from such people, online. But also, offline (if possible), and surrounding and bringing myself closer with people who have positive perception towards sex, and human bodies. Thank you, I'm trying my hardest and handling it in the best way I could think of. Your input is heard and appreciated! Most importantly, it helped me. Thank you, for listening, being here, and helping all of us.