Masculinity and Me

[Anand]

Hi! I'm Andy (nickname for Anand), and it's my first time on the boards!

I'm not the most eloquent with my words, so please give me some grace, haha!

I am AFAB, and I am very happy when it comes to identifying as a woman. However, something I've yearned for is masculinity. I remember at summer camp, when I was 10 years old, there was a teenage boy who played dodgeball with good sportsmanship and would always be kind if he got anyone out; little Andy was mesmerized by this kindness. When I was thirteen, I grew an appreciation for the gentlemanly behaviour my uncles and grandfathers had, especially when they would hold the door for me. Even now, I seem to always look at my male classmates and peers around me. One guy in my Music class would let his friends rest on his shoulder when they were drained from the day. Another guy in my English class spoke confidently, without fear of judgement and was open to further discussion (he was an odd case because he was quite rude at times, but everyone has their positives and faults, but I digress).

Now, as much as I write about masculinity, I am not attracted to men at all. My thoughts are focused on the different beautiful women in the world. I also understand that many of the traits that these guys present in my life are also present in the women I know. I have so many strong, kind, and confident women in my life who could spin the world on their pinkies.

This brings me to my main question. Why am I so focused on the male/masculine counterparts when I have women in my life who do the same thing? I've noticed changes when it comes to my own character, the way I dress, and the way I speak; it's as if I'm trying to mimic this "gentlemanly" or "masculine" behaviour and style. I just want to be a gentleman. I want to give kindness and make sure that other people are taken care of. I want to make sure I hold the door for others and show good sportsmanship. I want to be confident and have discussions without the fear of my opinion being "too much" because I know who I am and what I believe in.

My second question is: how can I be more confident in this masculinity while feeling confident in my gender and connection to women? As I stated at the start, I am very happy I can identify as a woman, and be a woman who gets to love other women platonically, romantically, and sexually. However, this yearning or focus that I have on masculinity feels like I'm going against my love for women. Especially with the "provider" mindset I have. I don't want to force anyone to be less independent just because I want to be more "masculine!" I don't want to come across as traditionalist or have my actions deemed as if women are weak or fragile! This is a dilemma I'm facing because it feels like I'm going against my own want of empowering women and wanting to be a "gentleman."

Is it alright for these two parts of me to intersect? They're aspects of myself I'm still working on and trying to figure out (especially with wanting to present as more masculine, but that's another board thread to start).

I hope these thoughts haven't been too convoluted. It's just something I've been pondering about, especially when it comes to my orientation and the expression of myself. Lot's of hugs, and I'd love to hear another perspective on this!

Cheers,

Andy

[Heather]

Hey there, Andy! Welcome to the boards.

I find you very eloquent! I also don't find any of what you have said convoluted. I have a few thoughts to start off with, and let's see where we want to go from there.

I hear you saying that you had very formative experiences seeing these things in men. I also hear you saying there are women in your life who have exhibited similar strengths and behaviours, but I'm not seeing you telling the same stories about them, so my best guess is that you didn't see as much of this stuff from women that was as formative for you. You're right, none of these qualities or behaviors are exclusive to men (and goodness knows, many men don't engage in them). Heck, as an agender nonbinary person, my experience of the world is that nothing is exclusive to, and very little is only prevalent with, people of any gender. My experience of the world is that pretty much everything when it comes to gender is arbitrary. Things people say are masculine or feminine usually just don't feel or seem that way to me, they seem like the ways people learned to or choose to categorize things that we could just as readily categorize as red or blue, or cold or hot, for example, or not categorize at all.

I'll also offer, from that perspective, that the idea that you can't be masc and still be a woman and appreciate women, femininity, or both (again, however it is that you define and experience those things) doesn't seem sound to me. There have been many people like that throughout history, and I have some of them in my own group of friends and chosen family. This is what a butch identity generally is. Not only is it okay for these parts of yourself to intersect, you may find that the fact they they do adds a richness to your experience of your own gender and the genders or gender expressions of other people. Men and women, or masculinity and femininity, are not actually in opposition to each other (or "opposites" as they have so long been so frequently presented). They can all co-exist, and they don't cancel each other out, either.

In terms of your concerns about how you want to behave and other people's agency, it might be worth just considering the difference between chivalry -- a historical idea about how men should behave with women that was based in a lot of male supremacy and a lot of the idea that women were helpless -- and kindness and courtesy, which is what you actually seem to be talking about, something that, as you know, also isn't male or female, masculine or feminine, it's just a way people of any gender can be. We can hold a door for someone and they still get to choose to go through it or not. We can offer help to someone and they can say yes or no. So long as you aren't taking anyone's agency away, I don't think you really need to worry about this like you are, you just sound like someone way too thoughtful about that to do that, you know?

How does all of that sit with you?

[Anand]

Hello!

Thank you for your quick response!

but I'm not seeing you telling the same stories about them, so my best guess is that you didn't see as much of this stuff from women that was as formative for you

You're definitely right. As much as I see the strong women who portray these exact actions and kindness today, I don't think I saw it as much growing up. Especially in my culture, where men were providers, and even in a religion that was still male-dominated, even with female Gods. I think that's why I always looked for the "masculinity" in men, because that's what I was surrounded by and taught to look for in my formative years.

Not only is it okay for these parts of yourself to intersect, you may also find that the fact that they do adds a richness to your experience of your own gender and the genders or gender expressions of other people.

I really like this point you made. Deep down, I think I knew it's ok for all these parts of me to coexist, but I believe that my embedded beliefs that I've held onto kind of scared me out of trusting my gut.

Men and women, or masculinity and femininity, are not actually in opposition to each other (or "opposites" as they have so long been so frequently presented). They can all co-exist, and they don't cancel each other out, either.

I apologize if I seemed a bit close-minded when it comes to masculinity and femininity! As confident as I am in my Queerness, I can't say the same about my knowledge in Queer identities, but thank you for pointing this out.

How does all of that sit with you?

Thank you again for responding to my post! I've been pondering this, especially with some confusion about this "masculinity" that I yearn for, but I feel like understanding it as it is, instead of trying to put a binary label on it, helps a lot. I think I just want to be a decent human being, and that doesn't mean I can't love women any less!!! Thanks for putting this into perspective for me!

[Heather]

You're so welcome! I think that, if you haven't already, you might really appreciate reading some butch/masc writers and thinkers. Would you like some suggestions of who to read?

[Anand]

That sounds awesome! I'd love to get some recommendations.

[Heather]

You got it!

Stone Butch Blues, by Leslie Feinberg, is kind of the OG butch published work here in the western world. You can get it from most libraries, and in many bookstores, but it's also offered in PDF here: https://www.lesliefeinberg.net/

You might also appreciate:
Butch Is a Noun by S. Bear Bergman
Ivan E. Coyote's work, especially Tomboy Survival Guide and Gender Failure. They also co-edited the anthology Persistence: All Ways Butch and Femme with Zena Sharman.
Alison Bechdel's work, especially Dykes to Watch Out For
The fictional novel Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters (it will also likely drum up your appreciation for women)
Dagger: On Butch Women, by Lily Burana
I haven't read it, but I have also heard very good things about Hijab Butch Blues by Lamya H

Enjoy! May you see yourself and feel good about it. <3